Critic of the IE worldview - English Version

Human Evolutionary Genetics on the Indo-European question: Haplogroups and Admixture analyses of Europe, Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and the Americas
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Zulu
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:40 pm

Critic of the IE worldview - English Version

Post by Zulu » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:52 am

Part 2 - Germanic Genetics vs. Celtic and Slavic Genetics (google translation, i hope that is not to confuse)
"Germanic tribes during the Migration Period show mainly R1b, also I-lines"

The assertion that the Lombards represent all Germanic tribes

"Germanic tribes during the Migration Period mainly show R1b, also I-lines" by Carlos Quiles is nonsense. Only Langobard cemeteries of Collegno and Szólád were evaluated, ie only one tribe.

This contradicts z.b. the evaluation of the genetics of the Tollense battle, promptly interpreted as Baltic Slavic , without proof, without any evidence !

"The Tollense Valley battlefield: the North European 'Trojan was' that's going to western Balto-Slavic origins'
Nowhere is the Tollense battle a battle between Teutons and Slavs / Baltens, which they obviously want to interpret here.

In fact, archaeologists can only assign the victorious defenders to the early Lusatian culture and the defeated attackers to a southern German / Bohemian area, but not ethnics or anything about their language.

On the other hand, the amber was traded so intensively that the Teutons also protected these mines. A clear indication of this is the Tollense battle, in which people from a radius of 100 km, including Poland as well as East Germany, fought side by side. We know that the Lusatian culture spoke Germanic, because they were called by the Romans as Germans / Goths. But we also know that there were differences between East Germanic, Western Germanic and Northern Germanic. Thus Arminius did not initially follow any Sueben tribes in his Varus battle. They were allied with Marbod, who after all accumulated so much power that the Romans pulled several legions together against him, which were then thrown against the Pannonian revolt in the short term, while Marbod was suddenly declared a friend of Rome and bought the peace with gold.
Thus, there were at least 3 Germanic-speaking cultures with several tribes, which were occupied by both Prokop and Tacitus with different myths.

In Collegno and Szólád, only one of these cultures was investigated, the Lombards.

The genetic differences between the three Germanic-speaking cultures would also be proved if one analyzed cemeteries of the Vandals, Gepids or Bastarnen, which certainly have a much higher R1a share, with the Vandals presumably by the presence of bell jars in Bohemia probably the most R1b may have.
"MtDNA suggest original East Germanic population linked to Jutland's Iron Age and Bell Beaker"
And they also stand out from the Northern Germans in Sweden, who in turn show a gradient to the Norwegian Germans. And even those do not correspond to the Western Germans, who have a lot more bells than R1b in Norway.

In fact, a R1b / R1a zone stretches across Germany and Scandinavia, which is also occupied by the R1a dropping east to west in eastern Norway. And this in turn clearly separates itself from the Uralic / Eastern European R1a line, which is occupied by the western expansion of Finno-Ugric tribes to the eastern Baltic and Belarus. And just as the western Germans lack the genetic admixture of the seeds, while the proportion of dome-bellies among the western Germans is much higher and decreases towards Norway.
The West Slavic tribes are not the children of the Eastern Slavic tribes, but descendants of the Central European R1a lines, of course plus I1 / I2.

Also that the Baltic was not the source of string ceramics, as stated here:
The concept of "Outlier" in Human Ancestry (III): Late Neolithic samples
from the Baltic region and origins of the Corded Ware culture "

Prove the following source:

Genetic prehistory of the Baltic Sea region and Y-DNA: Corded Ware and R1a-Z645, Bronze Age and N1c

The group detected in the Baltic R1a-Z645 group is also detectable in Germany, to Z283, Z282, Z280 so the "super fathers" of most of the Western Slavs and parts of the Russians. The missing in the Baltikum, in Germany (Espenstedt, Quedlinburg), they are all there. It only proves that the string ceramics are not from the Yamnaya culture, but the R1a-Z645 through contacts with N1 north of Ukraine was formed via late Neolithic contacts immigrants to Central Europe presumably from the upper Volga / Dniepr area on Belarus or Karelia, then on the Baltic States along the Baltic Sea coast to northern Germany and split here into a Nordic, eastern and southern group which correlate with the spread of string ceramics. It is unlikely that it will break up in the Baltics, because then these immigrants from the Urals would have to cross a sea or have reached Sweden via Karelia, Finland and Aland.
However, the route via Jutland is closer due to the presence of R1a-Z284 in Jutland.
Splitting in Germany is more likely due to the presence of LBK genetics and the presence of bell cups as well as the presence of megalithic hunter-gatherers from the west.

The adherence to a Slavic-Baltic Ursprache, which is nowhere before the 8th Century occupied (a Slavic or Baltic language is also not used by the Slavene / Sklavini), testifies to the ignorance with which real facts are ignored.
Especially with regard to the intensive trade and cultural exchange between Central Germany and Poland / Czech Republic and the Baltic States (expandable with southeastern Denmark and southern Sweden) which goes back far before the first mention of peoples in Central Europe. The amber trade seems to have developed in the late funnel beaker culture.

That of course with the "migrated" strains an increase of southern European or even Avar genetics is to be expected, should actually be obvious. The number of northern European migrants is also increasing in Roman Italy. Are these no longer Romans? Interestingly, however, is the statement that there is a North Central European core group in the Lombards. Presumably, this is so detectable in all strains, including in Celtic tribes in which with increasing proximity to the early colonies and the variety certainly increases. The argument of diversity is thus confronted with a core group, which corresponds to the image of a cell, so that the respective stem forms a cell.

To the last absurdity: "Haplogroup is not language, but R1b-L23 expansion associated with Proto-Indo-Europeans"

So haplogroups are not languages ​​unless they are R1b-L23, which are strangely Proto-Indo-Europeans. So R1b-L23 is a language group, all other haplogroups are not. Very logical. Especially since nothing is known about their language.

"So, for example, in the Indo-European demic diffusion model, phylogeography (and more specifically, the association of R1b-M269 subclades) is used to ascertain the migration of Middle and Late Indo-European speakers from the steppe [/] u].

Again, the immigration of a language is assumed without the possibility that it could have originated in Central Europe.

All this belief in an immigrant language is based on publications that began by overruling the patriarchal society of Europe by patriachal steppe riders who had now established their language and way of life. So that they arrived with an Indo-European language. However, there is no proof.
On the contrary, several cultures cling to old European traditions. It even comes to a renaissance of ancient traditions (eg the megalithic or the circular trench systems) among the bell jars and string ceramists and their successors.

The protoceltic and Indo-European reconstruction of the Irish god "Dagda" proves how wrong this belief is. This as the weather god Dagon or Dogon by colonies of the Sea Peoples, so the Phoenicians or Greeks immigrated, is much more likely than the linguistic reconstruction of a Urceltian Dagda.
" * Dhago-dēwos represents the proto-Celtic form that plays" well "with the protocollic lexeme * dago-s."
Source: Prof. Miranda Aldhouse, British Professor of Archeology and member of the faculty at the University of Wales, Newport:
The Celtic Myths. A Guide to the Ancient Gods and Legends. Thames & Hudson 1992.
in wikipedia articel (source 2015 The Celtic Myths from Prof. Miranda Aldhouse)

This is nonsense. THIS IS KELTOMANIE, this interpretation is false!

The same can be seen in Lugh and other names of gods, also and especially Slavic or Baltic gods and hydronomies, which are easily connected to gods and myths of the Greeks and Romans, Vikings and Teutons as well as other immigrants. So for example Dažbog, the Slavic variant of Dagon. But also Bryn-, Reka-, Radegast or Rugievit or Bieleboh and Czorneboh which sprang from the Beelzebub (Beelzebul) of the Bible and to which one added a Zornebub (germanic variation).
Numerous gods who are said to have been Indo-European have actually immigrated, whether Tyr or Cerunnos or Siva or and especially the supposedly Indo-European * Dyeus ph2tēr (Sky Father). These names are local variations and got local function, does not change their borrowing or their origin. But it shows the mistakes of linguistic reconstructions.

Thanks for reading. I hope that brings a new discussion about indoeuropean and indoiranic source with real existing evidence with and without nationalism interests. I wanted to upload an image that shows this, but unfortunately it does not work.

Here is a schematic Preview of Events with Genetic splits:

Pre-IE
----------------------------
Uralic Wolga Region
Samara Region
Ukraine Region
R1a1a - M217
R1a1a1-L664
-> Splits in Russia/Ural-Wolga-Dniepr-Ukraine Region (Uralian Speakers/Skythes)
R1a1a1-Z645 European Split in Yamnaya Culture
-> R1a1a1b2 Z93 (Uralian Speakers/Skythes)

Splits in Dacia and Hungary (romanised)
R1b1a1b R1b-M269
R1b1a1b1 R1b-L23
R1b1a1b1a R1b-L51

------------ IE -------------
R1a1a1b Z645 (Baltic)
R1a1a1b1 Z283 (Quedlinburg, Eilenburg, Bernburg)
R1a1a1b1a Z282 (Quedlinburg, Eilenburg, Bernburg)
->R1a1a1b1a1a M458 (Bernburg, Bohemian)
->->R1a1a1b1a1a1a L260 (now Slavic)
->->->R1a1a1b1a1a1c1 L1029 (now Slavic)
->R1a1a1b1a2 Z280 (now Slavic)
->R1a1a1b1a3a Z284 (now nordic)

R1b-P310/P311
(different Bohemian and Germanic Splits westly of Waag)
-> R1b-U106 (Bavarian Split)
U106-Expansion Middle Germany -> Nebra Skydisk buried ca. 1600 BC
U106-Expansion NorthGermany ->Tollense Battle in Northeast Germany ca. 1250 BC (nordic World War)
Zangers Anatolian Word War Zero (Troja) -> Seapeople Colonisation (Phonike and Greeks)
Orientalisation in Europe ->Etablishing of Urnfield Culture/Hallstatt Culture
Expansion of Celts along the Rhine -> Belger Group
Expansion of Celto-Germans to Norge -> Western Scandinavians
Expansion of Celto-Germans to UK (Belger Wales)
R1b1a1b1a2-P312 (Celtic and Italian Split)
Etruscian/Raethian/Noriker Settlement
Noriker-Celtisation of Southeastern Germanic Tribes (Macromannes, Quades and others) -> First germanic Runes
-> R1b1a1b1a2B-U151 Italian -> Magna Gracia -> Massilia Settlement/Narbonensis -> Latino-Celtic
-> R1b1a1b1a2a-DF27-> "Atlantis" in Portugal (Phonike in Huelva/Tartessos)
Hannibals World War against Rome and Roms Sieg
Roms Pyrrhus-Sieg (Epirus)
Roms Gallic War
Roms Dacian War
Roms Pannonian War
Roms Germanian Desaster
Roms Gothian Desaster

----------- Indohethitic (Pre-IA=Luwian)-------------
Indoiranic version
Hittitic Empire Etablished
Post Hittitic/Post Luwian/Post Maitani citys basis of Uratru states
----------- Indoiranic/Indoarian------------------
Median, Persian and Sassanide Empire
R1b Indoiranic
Kurushetra - Indian Persian Word War
R1a - Indoarian Speaker in Turan
Alexander the Great and his Hellenisation of Orient

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